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David44's avatar

Exactly right. One finds lots of examples of this in antiquity: people weeping over their defeated enemies, without any implication that they feel guilty for it. A particularly pertinent example is the Roman general Scipio Aemilianus at the sack of Carthage in 146 BC, where not only did he weep (and quoted a couple of lines from the Iliad in the process), but, conveniently, he actually explained why he was doing so. (This comes from Appian, Punica 132, but Appian took it directly from Polybius, who was with Scipio at the time and reported what he said):

"Scipio, when he looked upon the city as it was utterly perishing and in the last throes of its complete destruction, is said to have shed tears and wept openly for his enemies. After being wrapped in thought for long, and realizing that all cities, nations, and authorities must, like men, meet their doom; that this happened to Ilium, once a prosperous city, to the empires of Assyria, Media, and Persia, the greatest of their time, and to Macedonia itself, the brilliance of which was so recent, either deliberately or the verses escaping him, he said:

A day will come when sacred Troy shall perish,

And Priam and his people shall be slain.⁠

And when Polybius speaking with freedom to him, for he was his teacher, asked him what he meant by the words, they say that without any attempt at concealment he named his own country, for which he feared when he reflected on the fate of all things human. Polybius actually heard him and recalls it in his history."

In other words, Scipio saw how Rome might one day suffer the same thing as Carthage did, and wept in appreciation of their common human vulnerability. It didn't mean that he was feeling guilty for destroying Carthage - exactly the opposite.

Alex's avatar

Every take I've read on the Odyssey and Odysseus' "trauma" seems to gloss over the point that even in the epic tradition of Homer, the conduct of the Greeks in the sack of Troy was considered appalling and beyond the pale.

THEMATIC SPOILERS

The film isn't subtle about this at all - it explicitly and repeatedly states that Odysseus' guilt stems from the conduct of the Greeks after the war, as well as the use of an offering to the gods as a weapon of war and the societal breakdown that inevitably follows from these transgressions. He doesn't give a fuck about the Trojans any more than he cares about burning down and pillaging a small village because they are too weak to resist. He is weeping for what he and the Greeks inadvertently unleashed to end a war. It's basically 2 Oppenheimer 2 Furious.

THEMATIC SPOILERS DONE

It is an extremely small-c conservative film, which makes it all the funnier that the world's most chinless men are trying to claim it as woke.

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